The Index of Carnist Claims

Last update: 2023-04-25

Search (ctrl+F) all 217 articles on one page

(A) Ancestry and Cultivation
- (AA) Ancestry
  - (AA100) Animals are bred for agricultural use
    - (AA101) Animals are better off being farmed than in the wild
    - (AA102) Animals are treated better than humans
    - (AA103) I hunt animals as an act of mercy when they would die in the wild anyway
    - (AA104) It's survival of the fittest
  - (AA200) We are developed for eating meat (or evolved to do so)
    - (AA201) We have canines to eat meat
    - (AA202) Eating meat helped us evolve higher intelligence
    - (AA203) Humans have an acidic stomach to kill off pathogens
    - (AA204) cooking meat releases nutrients that you otherwise could not obtain
    - (AA205) Without animal products, humans get B12 deficient - a natural sign that we should be eating meat
    - (AA206) We have predator-like features
  - (AA300) We have been eating meat for thousands of years and zero Indigenous people are vegan
    - (AA301) It's cultivation, not oppression
    - (AA302) We assigned animals the purpose of being meat
    - (AA303) Deer know that they are the prey
  - (AA400) Animals are made to be eaten
- (AH) Humans are Animals
  - (AH100) Humans are at the top of the food chain
    - (AH101) There is "a circle of life"
  - (AH200) Lions eat meat
    - (AH201) You can't fault any animal for eating meat, including me
- (AM) Animal Morality
  - (AM100) Animals don't understand morality
  - (AM200) Carnivores would kill you if given the chance
  - (AM300) Nature is brutal
- (AP) Pets and Captive Non-Food Animals
  - (AP100) Vegans should oppose pet ownership
  - (AP200) Some vegans attack zoos. That's crazy!
(E) Ethics
- (EA) Non-Farmed-Meat Products
  - (EA100) Milk production is not harmful to farmed animals
    - (EA101) Animal products are ok if it's local
    - (EA102) Can't you just milk an animal and it not be unethical?
    - (EA103) My uncle gives me his local animal products as a gift
    - (EA104) Artificial insemination is OK because the animal didn't struggle
  - (EA200) Egg production is not harmful to farmed animals
  - (EA300) Sheep enjoy being sheared
    - (EA301) Mulesing isn't supposed to hurt the sheep
  - (EA400) What about eating ants, anemones, sea sponges, or jellyfish?
    - (EA401) Vegans don't eat honey? That's crazy.
  - (EA500) leather is ok because the other parts are more in demand
    - (EA501) I have leather stuff I still want to use
- (EH) Harm and Rights
  - (EH100) I will define carnism as axiomatically ok; morality is subjective anyway
    - (EH101) I don't need to justify carnism; you need to justify veganism
    - (EH102) Veganism is good and all, but isn't a moral imperative
    - (EH103) Moral nihilism justifies carnism
    - (EH104) Vegans need to demonstrate that eating meat is unnecessary
    - (EH105) Asking to change lifestyle carries burden of proof
    - (EH106) "Name the trait" gets to fundamental unknowable things about consciousness
    - (EH107) We only have one life and I am a hedonist
    - (EH108) It's wrong to deny potential future animals a chance to be born.
    - (EH109) Life contains suffering and without that, you wouldn't know joy
    - (EH110) Might makes right is inevitable but isn't so bad.
  - (EH200) I am only concerned with human rights; animals have no rights
    - (EH201) Humans are superior to animals
    - (EH202) Infants are exempt from special pleading because they have potential
    - (EH203) It's ok to kill animals if it's for food
    - (EH204) I base my morality on intelligence
    - (EH205) Animals can't sign contracts to instate their rights
  - (EH300) I base my morality on a species-by-species basis
    - (EH301) Vegans are just basing morality on cuteness
    - (EH302) Dogs are more useful animals
    - (EH303) I base my morality on the intelligence of the species
- (EM) Ethical Methods
  - (EM100) The animals die instantly and feel no pain
  - (EM200) "Locally sourced meat" is humane - as long as I avoid factory farming, I'm ok
  - (EM300) I'm not paying for it, it's just collateral damage
  - (EM400) I use the whole animal so it's ok
    - (EM401) X isn't an essential ingredient of chicken, egg, cow, etc. products
- (EP) Hypotheticals
- (ER) Religion and Existentialism
  - (ER100) God put animals here to eat
    - (ER101) It's ok to hurt animals because they are just biological machines without souls
    - (ER102) "God told me personally that [thing everyone agrees on] is wrong, but eating animals is ok."
  - (ER200) You can't prove that anything is real so animals might not have rights
    - (ER201) Animals are just operating on instinct; you can't prove they have feelings
(G) Global Effects
- (GE) Ecology
  - (GE100) We need grass-fed animals that are farmed on non-arable land that cannot be used for crops
    - (GE101) Farmed animals are fed food byproducts and not food
    - (GE102) Animals are necessary to make the fertilizer for the plants we eat
  - (GE200) Almonds are consuming California's water supply
    - (GE201) "Sustainable Fishing" is important
  - (GE300) Tropical fruit X causes deforestation
  - (GE400) Animal agriculture is not the largest contributor to climate change
  - (GE500) Plants cause some problem X
    - (GE501) Plants damage the environment through agricultural runoff
    - (GE502) Veganism promotes plant monoculture
    - (GE503) Growing plants destroys land animal populations
    - (GE504) Vegan foods are lower in calories and therefore require more resources
  - (GE600) Animals will overrun the earth if we don't eat them
    - (GE601) Farmed animals will go extinct if we don't eat them
    - (GE602) Farmed animals would be killed in the wild if we let them go
- (GM) Economy
  - (GM100) People would lose their jobs if the entire world went vegan
    - (GM101) Domestic livestock are the currency of the world's poor
    - (GM102) veganism promotes economic globalism
    - (GM103) veganism restricts access to items
  - (GM200) Animal is already dead, so what does it matter if you eat it?
    - (GM201) I'm not killing an animal, I'm paying for killing an animal
  - (GM300) Being vegan is not accessible to everyone
    - (GM301) Being vegan is a privilege of modernity
    - (GM302) Being vegan is expensive
    - (GM303) If we end the meat subsidy, then people will suffer
  - (GM400) Carnism is only one cause of global issue X and therefore justified
    - (GM401) We already make enough food to feed everyone
  - (GM500) "It's not people; it's big industry hurting the environment"
    - (GM501) Veganism requires child labor
  - (GM600) "There is no ethical consumption under capitalism!"
(H) Health and Human Physiology
- (HD) Vegan Disease
  - (HD100) Veganism might have negative health effect X
    - (HD101) The only way to be vegan without "help" is to eat manure
    - (HD102) Vegan food causes crooked teeth
    - (HD103) Vegans suffer from poor bone density
    - (HD104) The "Epic-Oxford Study" Showed that Vegans suffer from hip fractures
    - (HD105) We are natural omnivores; Veganism isn't natural
    - (HD106) It's important to have balance
  - (HD200) Kids are unhealthy on a vegan diet, studies show
    - (HD201) A vegan family had a baby that suffered from malnutrition once
  - (HD300) Why do all vegans look unhealthy?
    - (HD301) Person X recommended veganism but looks unhealthy
    - (HD302) Many Youtubers and celebrities have tried veganism but they were forced to quit
  - (HD400) The countries with the tallest people consume the most milk
  - (HD500) You're going to run into health problems soon, vegan
- (HF) Antinutrients Found in Plants
  - (HF100) Processed food industry loves vegans
    - (HF101) Plant Foods are high in carbs
    - (HF102) Vegan foods have so many ingredients that are so long and hard to pronounce
  - (HF200) Vegetables have been recalled for e coli contamination
    - (HF201) Some plants are poisonous
  - (HF300) Plants contain phytoestrogens
  - (HF400) Legumes cause "Leaky Gut Syndrome"
    - (HF401) Some people have diseases which are helped by carnivory
- (HP) Plant Deficiencies
  - (HP100) Humans are omnivores
    - (HP101) Veganism seems unnecessarily restrictive
    - (HP102) You can't get nutrient X on a vegan diet
    - (HP103) Veganism is associated with protein deficiency
    - (HP104) Dietary cholesterol is missing on a vegan diet
    - (HP105) Vegan children are deficient in vitamin A
    - (HP106) Vegans get the wrong form of Vitamin A
    - (HP107) Vegans are deficient in Vitamin D3
    - (HP108) Vegans are deficient in Vitamin K2
  - (HP200) Vegans need supplements
    - (HP201) Supplements are sometimes low-quality products
    - (HP202) Vegan athletes require supplements
  - (HP300) Veganism doesn't let athletes perform to the highest level
    - (HP301) Almost no top athletes in field X are vegan
  - (HP400) You can eat animal products and still be healthy
- (HQ) Health Officials
  - (HQ100) Any doctor promoting veganism is a shill
    - (HQ101) There are organizations that do not recommend vegan diets
    - (HQ102) Consensus on vegan diets being nutritionally adequate is fake
  - (HQ200) Epidemiology is weak evidence
(P) Personal Preference
- (PG) Good-Faith Efforts
  - (PG100) I tried going vegan but give up if I slip up
  - (PG200) It's hard to be vegan while traveling
  - (PG300) "I'm trying to be a part-time vegetarian"
- (PI) Identity
  - (PI100) It's our culture to eat meat
    - (PI101) Never tell a person of color to go vegan
    - (PI102) Never tell an indigenous person to go vegan
  - (PI200) Veganism sounds like fundamentalist Christianity
  - (PI300) I'm a libertarian; eating meat is freedom
    - (PI301) It's manly to eat meat
  - (PI400) "I don't care"
- (PM) Half Measures
  - (PM100) Veganism sounds extreme
  - (PM200) I'll eat meat as long as I don't buy it myself
    - (PM201) I'll dumpster dive for meat
- (PP) Preference
  - (PP100) Animal products are tasty
  - (PP200) Being vegan isn't easy
    - (PP201) I was asked to a restaurant without any vegan options
    - (PP202) Vegan food alternatives taste weird
(V) Vegans Themselves
- (VA) Vegans annoying Carnists
  - (VA100) I am annoyed at a vegan's comparison to X
    - (VA101) How dare you compare carnism to the holocaust!
  - (VA200) "Vegans are just gatekeeping environmentalism"
  - (VA300) A vegan made an ad hominem argument that discredits their position
  - (VA400) Now's not the time to soapbox
    - (VA401) Militant vegans are forcing their beliefs on carnists
  - (VA500) "it's a personal choice"
    - (VA501) "It's live and let live, man"
    - (VA502) We need to find common ground
- (VH) Feigned vegan hypocrisy
  - (VH100) Why copy meat products if you're against it?
    - (VH101) "Why is it called a veggie burger?"
  - (VH200) You can't be vegan and pro-choice
  - (VH300) Why are vegans against Meatless Mondays? I thought they'd be for saving even a single animal
  - (VH400) All modern society is exploitative
    - (VH401) Vegans use cell phones (and other products) which are exploitative
- (VI) Vegans harm animals too
  - (VI100) You can't be 100% vegan because you kill animals by side effects in supporting carnist businesses
    - (VI101) Animals die in crop harvesting
    - (VI102) Vegans kill animals by accident in modern society
    - (VI103) Animals make the fertilizer for the plants you eat so even plants aren't vegan
    - (VI104) 7.3 billion animals are killed for harvesting crops
    - (VI105) Eating Ruminants kills fewer animals
  - (VI200) Vegans kill plants; Plants feel pain
    - (VI201) Tomatoes Scream when picked or cut
  - (VI300) Hidden animal products are all around us; it's impossible to be vegan.
    - (VI301) Vaccines aren't vegan
- (VP) Lack of Popularity
  - (VP100) The whole world won't go vegan
  - (VP200) Carnism is normal because it is popular
    - (VP201) it's legal to eat animal products
  - (VP300) There are more ex-vegans than vegans
    - (VP301) 84% of vegetarians revert to eating meat
    - (VP302) Veganism will die off
  - (VP400) I agree with not hurting animals but vegans sound crazy
    - (VP401) Veganism is a cult
- (VQ) Vegan Personalities
  - (VQ100) Vegan personality or organization X said or did thing Y. Doesn't that mean eating animals is ok?
    - (VQ101) PETA Euthanizes Animals
  - (VQ200) Veganism has no rigid definition
    - (VQ201) "Carnist" is just vegans trying to insult meat eaters
    - (VQ203) "Cruelty" and "Abuse" are such strong words to use here
    - (VQ204) I'm not offended by the name "speciesist"
  - (VQ300) Hitler was a vegetarian
  - (VQ400) No one is really vegan
    - (VQ401) Vegans just want to feel self-superiority because they abstain from something good
    - (VQ402) Vegans are judgemental
    - (VQ403) Vegans are just another set of puritans
    - (VQ404) Veganism is dangerous because it will be eventually illegal
    - (VQ405) Carnism won't be stopped by just making it illegal
    - (VQ406) Vegans cheat on their diet and lie about it
  - (VQ500) Veganism is just a diet
(X) Misc
- (XM) Meta Arguments about Carnist.cc